Lady Shiril speaks on Ivas
Pan Arkati Festival 5102
Recorded and edited by Morgiest Frostgiant


Shiril recites:

"Good evening, ladies and gentlemen."

Shiril recites:

"If you aren't already aware, this is the Ivas Lecture and Panel section of the Panarkati Festival."

Shiril recites:

"I am going to be giving a lecture on Ivas and some of the aspects that are well-known, as well as others that are ignored by the general populace. You'll find that I am somewhat biased in my opinions, obviously, though I will try to provide a fairly broad view of Ivas for you. I also have a tendency to be a bit verbose, so if you need clarification on anything, please save your questions for the end."

Shiril recites:

"The lecture will be followed by discussion."

Shiril nods.
Shiril recites:

"I also plan on keeping a speaking voice, so please keep your own voices down."

Shiril says, "I would like to begin with a short story of some behavior that revolves around Ivas. There are, of course, many myths that float around telling of Ivas, her influences, and her "adventures"."
Shiril says, "Growing up as a child, I rarely heard these stories, but I was fortunate to be introduced to a bevy of tales involving my Lady while I was traveling. I would like to relate, simply for example s sake, a myth telling of Ivas' personal servants, her "Dancers"."
Shiril says, "These Dancers of Ivas were once mortals like ourselves. They served a Queen of auld, who came from a family sworn to serve Ivas. Upon taking up the reins of her kingdom, the Queen also swore her duty and kingdom to the service of Ivas."
Shiril says, "Yet this Queen later betrayed Ivas. The royal family and many officials, as well as city-folk, supported the Queen in her betrayal."
Shiril says, "Strongly bound to Ivas since their coming-of-age, the Queen's twelve ladies-in-waiting did not betray their goddess. Instead, they were wrought with anger when the Queen and royal family did this. To them, betraying the patron goddess was akin to staging a coup, or plain mutiny. Ivas was their provider, and serving her by serving their Queen was their real reason for living. If their Queen no longer provided this connection, they saw no need for her life to continue."
Shiril says, "The women vowed to seek vengeance on behalf of Ivas."
Shiril says, "The twelve women went to the streets, inviting the lust-driven lepers and drunkards to lay with them, well knowing they would contract diseases from the scum of the city. Following this contact, the women seduced the Queen's favorite bedmates, effectively leaving them with diseases to pass on to the Queen."
Shiril says, "The women then invited all the traitorous individuals to a ball they planned to honor the Queen. At the ball they spread out a great feast of poison-laced food and drinks."
Shiril says, "Dressed in gauzy silks and belled jewelry, entertainment to any eye, the twelve women came out as usual and lingered amongst the guests. After the feasting commenced, the twelve women asked special permission to entertain the guests by dancing. The Queen was delighted by the proposal."
Shiril says, "The twelve stood together as they began their elaborate dance. It was not just any dance, however, but one with swords. The women took out the long, sharp, curved scimitars as they proceeded with an intricate choregraphy, their bodies swirling and swaying, their scimitars twirling and slashing through the light strains of music."
Shiril says, "After a time, the women began to move amid those seated, gracing each guest they passed near with personal attention. With a slow wink and a brief smile, each woman would slip her arms around the neck of a guest, placing her hand over a mouth in what looked to be a brief caress. A caress that was really stifling the scream that came after a dagger quietly slipped through soft flesh."
Shiril says, "At first, no one noticed. The guests that were stabbed slumped back in their seats with glazed eyes, and others merely took them to be in a daze at the women's dancing and touches. A shrill scream, however, pierced the air as one woman noticed the blood dripping down a coat... and chaos broke out."
Shiril says, "Amidst cries of confusion, the twelve women swept through the palace, their sharpened scimitars slicing through fleeing feast-goers, while the Queen watched on in fear of her own death. Those who managed to escape were unaware of the poison from the food creeping through their veins. Death found them only a short while after."
Shiril says, "The Queen was the only real survivor of the ball. Her twelve ladies-in-waiting had served her food themselves, being certain to keep the poisoned palate away."
Sothog says, "A well planned coup."
Shiril nods to Sothog.
Shiril says, "The women only let her live, however, because they knew she would die her own painful death. The vicious stabs of pain the Queen began to feel with increasing frequency were the result of a disease she had, unbeknownst to her, contracted from one or several of her bedmates. She lived only long enough to see the ruin of her kingdom."
Shiril says, "As the task was complete, the twelve women prayed to Ivas, telling of their finished task. Ivas, impressed with the ability and faith of these women. She knew they were to die from their own diseases, yet Ivas felt this would be a waste of good service."
Shiril says, "On a whim, she decided to gift them with the honor of serving her forever. The price for this was that they all became identical to each other, both in body and mind. Only small traces of the women they once were remained."
(Volsix watches Shiril with a look of masked entertainment.)
Shiril says, "The Dancers of Ivas wear colorful costumes of ethereal materials and curved swords, usually scimitars, that they use to entertain by dancing. They will also seduce those who betray Ivas, and then slowly, or quickly, kill them at Ivas' whim."
Shiril says, "Keep in mind that this is merely a myth, and only one version of how her Dancers came to be. But I think it is appropriate here."
Shiril says, "And now we'll move into the heart of the lecture..."
Shiril smiles.
Shiril says, "If you have any questions, again, save them for the end."
Shiril says, "Ivas is often referred to as the Seductress or the Temptress. This is with good reason -- using desire or lust or passion, Ivas can completely envelope a mind and drown it."
Shiril says, "My Lady, Ivas, rules over the spheres of Desire, Lust, and Passion. Emotions and driving forces in the mortal world, these are things that are with us, day in and day out, touching the lives of almost anyone who walks underneath the sun and moons of Elanthia."
Shiril says, "In common terms, desire refers to an earnest longing, a demand, or even a dream. Lust, likewise, refers to an eagerness to possess, enjoy, or covet something. And passion itself is an overwhelming emotion in connection to something you feel strongly about... or it can refer to a suffering or disorder of the mind; a madness."
Shiril says, "Obviously, all three of these can be painful or pleasurable, as well as openly declared... or secreted away in the depths of our hearts. They are, above all else, overwhelming emotions that root themselves strongly in a heart or mind, possibly causing one to become extremely sensitive or uncontrollably excited."
Shiril says, "And obviously, that makes them quite useful to some folk."
Shiril grins wryly.
Shiril says, "Each of these elements is important in itself, yet as a whole they create the entire essence of Ivas. They also play a part in most mortals' lives."
Shiril says, "Let me now give you some background as to where Ivas falls in the scheme of things."
Shiril nods.
Shiril says, "She is a member of the Lornon Pantheon, and tends to be closely aligned with Eorgina. It is said she has a certain fondness for Luukos and Mularos, as well. The goal of the Lornon Pantheon, loosely aligned as it may be, is to create some semblance of order out of the chaos of Elanthia."
Shiril says, "Ivas' main "adversary" as far as the Arkati are concerned is Oleani, who is the goddess of Love, Fertility, and Springtime. Many mortals see Oleani and Ivas as complete opposites. While this isn't quite true, Oleani's methods and way of life are not exactly Ivas' cup of tea."
Shiril says, "Generally, Ivas appears to us mortals as an incredibly beautiful woman. Sometimes mortals see her with tentacles for arms and shark's teeth for a maw. It has been said that this is her true form."
Shiril says, "Some of her followers believe this, while others will dispute it."
Noodle shudders.
Shiril asks, "What is it that we find so intriguing about Ivas? Why would we want to serve her, or even give any heed to the spheres she rules over?"
Shiril raises an eyebrow.
Shiril says, "First of all, lusts and desires form a significant base for motivation and drive in everyday life. They are like greed, something that drives you to get what you see and want."
(Tanager chuckles softly under her breath from her position at the very edge of the room.)
Tanager says, "Mortal weakness."
Shiril nods to Tanager.
Shiril says, "That they are."
Shiril says, "Some people will house desires in the depths of their heart, and while they may not act on them, the desire is still present and will in some way influence the way they think or act. Other people will make their desires known, and possibly influence the lives of others in that respect. Yet others will take any and every form of action to get to what they want -- their object of lust."
Shiril says, "Mortals lust after and desire money, fame, and their own goals. They are passionate about many things in this world. While not all desires and lusts are the base physical ones that are so often associated with Ivas, lust of the flesh is arguably the most common driving force in mortals."
Shiril says, "If that is the case, how does one go about serving Ivas? The forms are far and varied, and I will only touch on a few."
Shiril says, "Ivas is well-known for her art of seduction. This involves drawing someone away from the path of rectitude, the path that others feel is "right" or "good"; the path others think you SHOULD take."
Shiril says, "What Ivas does with seduction is focus on what you really wish, deep down, to do or to want. She then draws these desires and passions out of you, leading you to act to take what you want, regardless of consequences. Lust of the flesh is often used in conjunction with this. However, seduction is a multi-faceted act, almost like bargaining for some precious treasure, and it can be applied to nearly any avenue of life."
Shiril says, "You hold the goods, and others will do what you want in order to get what they want from your hands. You present them with a taste of the reality they see in their dreams."
Shiril says, "You have achieve your own ends when you successfully seduce your target, or simply tempt him by adding fire to his passions or goals. Success is found when the target fulfills or has come closer to satiating his own desires. If the target does not actually reach his goal, he should at least feel that he is one step closer, and thus he will continue on his way, often through your "aid", to reaching the peak of the mountain. Thus, you have helped him to follow the path he really desires to take."
Shiril says, "The strong will eventually reach that peak. You assert some semblance of power over another, while also helping lead minds from the so-called 'righteous' path of life. If they turn to Ivas, then you have successfully garnered more support for your goddess."
Shiril asks, "The weak-minded, however, will be used as entertainment or amusement. Ivas will still house the weak, obviously, since they are amusing, but she will not long favor them. They are only useful in making the strong stronger as practice subjects and by comparative value. The weak don't use others; instead, they end up trampled on the ground. They are easily led astray, and who would trust someone like that to remain faithful?"
(Volsix chuckles darkly for a moment, then glances about.. catching himself.)
Shiril raises an eyebrow.
Shiril says, "Another means of service includes dancing. Ivas is often called "The Dancer". I'm sure anyone who has danced with another, or merely viewed a single body whirling, slithering, and undulating to a bass drum or tambourine, can see why dancing can be a form of seduction."
Renphil traces a sign while petitioning the spirits for cognition...
Shiril says, "Encouraging overindulgence is also another show of faith. Why take the path of conservative poverty and starvation when you can take the route of lavish consumption and drowning in passion? Whether it be in love, debauchery, money, or a meal: be a glutton -- enjoy what you can, while you can, as much as you can. Teach others to partake in what Ivas has to offer."
Shiril says, "In all these and other forms of worship, an important tool to keep in mind is that of jealousy. Mortals constantly suffer and are led by jealousy. Someone will always have something better than you, and generally you will feel envious. Your mind will color itself even greener when someone gets what you have, leaving you empty-handed. This is even more so when they forcibly take it."
Shiril says, "In that regard, you might see how creating jealousy within a mind renders it helpless or prone to realistic reaction; jealousy comes from a desire so inherently wedged in a person that they cannot but help being influenced to the core. Jealousy created from lust and desire causes a person to bend to any will, to give in to any passion."
Shiril says, "A person will, at times, do whatever they can to rid themselves of a jealous feeling."
Shiril asks, "You might be able to see why many mortals consider leading minds astray, dancing, and general overindulgence a temptation and corruption of "proper" conduct. But how is "proper" conduct really all that proper when you stifle your own wishes and desires? Why be bound by societal rules? Why sacrifice your own happiness?"
Shiril shakes her head, clucking her tongue.
Shiril says, "There are, of course, those who claim Ivas' ways are 'evil'. This view says that Ivas brings a twisted love, full of spiteful jealousy, corrupting, and impure in nature as compared to Oleani's brand of love."
Shiril says, "Only people who do not understand Ivas say that. It is the result of ignorance. It is what those of a weak mind believe."
Shiril says, "Oleani, as you may well know, does not look down upon the secret trysts and affairs that are often attributed to Ivas' teachings. It is the intent behind these affairs that differs."
Shiril begins chuckling at Psionix.
Shiril asks, "Love is only twisted or full of spiteful jealousy if people are weak enough to allow those feelings to consume them. Passion, lust, and desire are some of the most pure, raw forms of feeling and emotion. How corrupting is the truth of desires that are so heartfelt that they are mentally decapacitating?"
Shiril says, "Ivas merely encourages you to give in to what you really want, and to experience the full throes of passion without any residual guilt. She also breaks the weaker minds. As a result, all of those unnecessary weaknesses are weeded out of society."
Shiril says, "Each person who worships Ivas does so in their own way. Some are forceful, leaving no room for argument. Others are subtle, trapping you in their web without your even realizing it. Some will use you constantly so long as it is beneficial to Ivas, with little regard to your eventual fate; while others will seek to help you understand the goddess. Understand that there are countless ways in which worshipping Ivas is done, and each servant has their own objective to reach in service."
Shiril says, "People have said that the passions and lust that Ivas encourages are so powerful that they can fully change a man or woman, or destroy kingdoms and empires. This is certainly true."
Tayre glances at Kasia.
Shiril says, "The only reason that kind of power is present is because people feel desire and lust to their core. And passion comes from the core."
Shiril says, "To ignore desire... lust... passion... is to allow corruption and self-destruction. You ignore reality. You betray yourself. To embrace these is to see the light, to make order from chaos."
Shiril says, "And I believe I will now open up the floor for questions and discussion."
Shiril nods to Morgiest.
Morgiest says, "Is not the ability to control our lusts, desires, etc. what seperates us from animals? What you describe does not sound like order from chaos, but chaos from order, the complete loss of self control..."
Shiril says, "For now, yes, raise hands."
Shiril cocks her head at Morgiest.
Shiril says, "Generally speaking... those who follow Ivas are indeed able to control themselves."
Shiril says, "That is why they are considered the 'strong'."
Shiril says, "The weak ones, those that we prey on, are the people who cannot control themselves."
Morgiest asks, "But you encouraged people to give in to thier lusts and desires, doesnt that mean abandonment of self control and discipline to do that?"
Shiril says, "It is exactly by recognition that this is possible."
Guhl asks, "but what if you don't recognise yourself here?"
Naessi says, "If you choose to give in... no."
Guhl asks, "And yet I feel no obvious connection with Ivas, either to fear or be interested in. Surely there is some lesson for those like myself--folk who take great pleasure in hard work, and pride in their ability to endure hardship--a lesson to learn from even this wayward sprite?"
Shiril says, "Yes, but to an extent."
Shiril nods to Morgiest.
Shiril says, "Darlings, one at a time."
Morgiest says, "Thank for your your answers m'Lady, and I do think it was an excellent presentation non-the less."
Shiril nods to Morgiest.
Iscikella recites:

"Please follow the format for discussion with which Shiril is comfortable."

Iscikella nods.
Shiril says, "Instead of raising hands, whisper to me and I'll tell you when to go forward with your question."
Grandevr asks, "Is not Ivas' form of Love impure and corrupt? Basing it utterly on wanton desires and lust? While Oleani's is pure love, which is conductive to real and tight emotional companionship which is what love truly is?"
Grandevr leans on his staff.
Naessi asks, "You were once engaged to an Ivas worshipper, were you not?"
Naessi cocks her head at Grandevr.
Shiril says, "That really depends on your own view of love."
Shiril asks, "Would you want love that is void of passion and lust?"
Shiril peers quizzically at Grandevr.
Shiril asks, "Is that REALLY love?"
Grandevr says, "Geniune love involves true passion from the heart"
Morgiest says, "Not devoid of it, but not controlled by it either..."
Navlys says, "But lust is good, too"
Navlys nods.
Shiril says, "Yes, quite right. And Ivas encompasses that passion. All passions."
Shiril cocks her head at Grandevr.
Grandevr says, "Not percieving others as potentional prey to manipulate"
Shiril says, "Passion is multi-faceted, my dear."
Jacinto says, "Different...though each can involve the other."
Tanager says, "One might argue, is there any passion that does not belong to the darker Dancer?" Tanager shrugs slightly, then adds, "I wouldn't. But one might."
Naessi says, "I think Shiril explained that not all worshippers behave in that way of manipulators."
Jacinto says, "Yep. Some of em are very economical lasses."
Sayori says, "Cats know the way of Ivas. "Come here, kitty cat onto my lap..." you plead...yet the cat ignores you, its eyes locked intently onto a ball of lint, and you feel empty inside."
Jacinto says, "Real businesswomen."
Jacinto nods.
Sylnorella asks, "Is it not only passionate on the targets part? If an Ivasten succeededs in suduction, would it not become rather routine to them?"
Sayori says, "Yet you continue to feed her and care for her."
Shiril begins chuckling at Sayori.
Grandevr says, "That may be so Naessi... but the point would be that Ivas condones it"
Saoirsse asks, "Love is an kitty cat?"
Sayori says, "Sure it is."
Ysharra asks, "So cat-lovers are weak-minded?"
(Sayori pushes her firecat onto Saorisse rudely.)
Naessi says, "You cannot blame her for seeking to further Her own desires."
Shiril recites:

"Folks, if I miss your question, I'm going to apologize now. Whisper to me so that I let you go in turn."

Shiril asks, "Would you like more commentary as answer?"
Grandevr says, "Please"
Grandevr nods.
Shiril says, "Passion and how we perceive it is one element of Ivas that is rather misunderstood."
Shiril says, "Just because an Arkati sits on the Lornon Pantheon, does not make them all 'evil' or bad or even necessarily dark."
Shiril says, "You have to look at all sides of every element they preside over."
Shiril says, "This is so with passion, obviously, and how it relates to love."
Shiril says, "Love isn't very whole without passion, whether it is in a form of using someone or not."
Shiril nods to Grandevr.
Grandevr nods to Shiril.
Shiril asks, "Do you have a return for that?"
Shiril says, "And folks, feel free to comment if you like. Just save the questions for whispers."
Naessi asks, "Were you not engaged at one time to an Ivas follower, Grandevr?"
Naessi cocks her head at Grandevr.
Morgiest sats, "Love isnt complete without passion, but it should not be ruled by passion..."
Grandevr says, "My postulation is that how Ivas percieve love isn't conductive to true meaningful relationships, just, 'relations' so to speak"
Fathomynd says, "I have been thinking, part of true love is passion and lust to the highest mountian, along with the connection of soul, you can have true love without such passion"
Miharae says, "To teach spite, envy, and jealousy, and to destory those not as strong as you is right? I can understand the purity of passion, desire, and lust- but to destroy on cruel whimsey? That is a twisting of ones deepest pontential in life, not acceptance of reality... it is corrupting the mind to find false betrayl in those could things that drive our lives on. I see no goodness in that..."
Fathomynd says, "i think not"
Grandevr says, "Nae"
Grandevr looks over at Naessi and shakes his head.
Miharae says, "Passion is an important part of love, but how can you destroy someone's most intimate self and call that love? It's so selfish, to desire to cause such pain. Passion, Desire, and Lust are a part of this world- but they were not put here to be used as a tool to destroy..."
Naessi raises an eyebrow in Grandevr's direction.
Naessi says, "My information must be incorrect."
Naessi nods to Grandevr.
Shiril coughs.
Shiril says, "Miharae.."
Shiril says, "The concept of using folk only applies to the weak-minded."
Shiril says, "Why do we want weak-minded individuals in our society? We don't."
Shiril says, "It doesn't contribute to the general good."
Shiril says, "However, by taking those weak-minded with potential under our wings..."
Shiril says, "We teach them to understand passions, lust, and so on... so that they ARE able to control them at will."
Jacinto asks, "A lust-filled educational service?"
Jacinto chuckles.
Sylnorella says, "Or into your tenticals..."
Sylnorella hums distractedly to herself.
Miharae says, "And who is fit to judge the strength of a mind? It's no ones place, not here... If the Gods wish to judge, let them strike us down. We do not have that right"
Jacinto says, "Sounds like it has fringe benefits for the Ivasians."
Shiril asks, "Who is fit to judge anything?"
Shiril cocks her head at Miharae.
Naessi grins.
Shiril says, "If someone wants to be seduced..."
Shiril says, "They will be."
Jacinto says, "I may reccomend a few citizens of Wehnimer's."
Shiril says, "If they really don't want to, then of course they will decline and be on their merry way."
Shiril says, "There is something called freedom of choice. You tend to give into something only if you really, really want it."
Miharae says, "Not I. Nor you, nor anyone here. Seduction is not an act of will. It is an act of betraying the most intimate trusts..."
Shiril cocks her head at Miharae.
Shiril asks, "Or satiating your most intimate desires?"
Volsix asks, "Who else expected the lectures to turn into theological debates?"
Shiril raises an eyebrow.
(Volsix raises his hand slightly.)
Morgiest says, "Well, seuction does not have to be linked to betrayal, ah kin think o' a few barmaids....."
Morgiest coughs.
Morgiest says, "Err, nevermind."
Miharae says, "I could not for the world forgive my self if I were to so destroy someone I love.... Desires are not worth such destruction, not to me..."
Morgiest whistles tunelessly to himself, remembering days past.
Iscikella just nudged Morgiest.
Shiril starts chuckling at Morgiest.
Shiril says, "But that is you."
Naessi says, "Volsix, that was half the point."
Fathomynd asks, "seduction is often wanted, or there may be no spice with the one you love the most, you seduce eachother to keep the flames of passion as hot as possible, how is that wrong?"
Jacinto says, "I rather like being seduced."
Miharae asks, "Aye. If all the world was me, what fun would life be?"
Shiril nods to Marandalynn.
Shiril begins chuckling at Miharae.
Shiril says, "Well... debatable."
Shiril says, "I'd certainly be interested in getting to know you now."
Shiril winks at Miharae.
Volsix says, "Half."
Morgiest says, "Aye, seduction in and of itself is not evil. Its the intentions of the seducer that would be good, evil, or just neutral."
Morgiest shrugs.
Jacinto says, "I've enjoyed some rather pleasant seductions and felt no worse for it after."
Jacinto nods to Miharae.
Sabitor says, "My question was..."
Sabitor rubs his chin thoughtfully.
Miharae says, "When you utterly destroy the one you love, that is when passion twists out of hand. But before that line, I cannot claim that it is not a great gift..."
Sabitor asks, "Are there any male worshippers of Ivas that go around seducing women?"
Sabitor peers quizzically at Shiril.
Shiril points at Psionix.
Miharae says, "I've taken up much of your time. My thanks, Lady"
Shiril says, "Yes, definitely."
(Tanager takes another step backward, putting her half in the next hall up and half in this one.)
Fathomynd says, "if you destoy the one you love did you ever really love her, or him, i think that fall upon another god"
Jacinto says, "Not something I talk about much, seduction."
Tanager says, "Praise all bright gods for that."
Kadesha says, "he worships V'Tull, but hed please Ivas"
Skaster says, "You'd know this well."
(Tanager's cheeks are an interesting dark shade of red.)
Skaster winks at Fathomynd.
Sabitor shudders.
Sabitor says, "I see."
Sabitor looks over at Shiril and shakes his head.
Shiril says, "So yes, there are male worshippers."
Sayori says, "What's wrong with her."
Sabitor says, "I'm not easily seduced by women anyhow."
Shiril chuckles.
Sabitor scoffs.
Shiril says, "In the audience, at that."
Sabitor says, "More seduced by material things."
Jacinto asks, "Diamonds, though?"
Shiril begins chuckling at Sabitor.
Jacinto asks, "Bejeweled handbags?"
Guhl says, "my question"
Guhl says, "I feel no obvious connection with Ivas, either to fear or be interested in. All I can find out is that she is a goddess of desires and that these are somehow bad, but i swear, my desires are ghood, and I don't limit them in any way: to work, to make, to grow slowly rich and venerable...? I fear there is no wisdom for this dwarf to learn at Ivas' shrine. Just anyone try to seduce me, to what? ::shrug::"
Shiril says, "A personal question..."
Shiril begins chuckling at Guhl.
Jacinto says, "Oddly...the most enjoyable philosophical discussion I've ever had with a bunch of followers of Lornon."
Jacinto grins at Shiril.
Guhl grins stupidly.
Shiril begins chuckling at Jacinto.
Shiril asks, "What is it you seek in life?"
Shiril peers quizzically at Guhl.
Guhl says, "i said in my question..."
Psionix says, "In all my years of serving the Lady. I have never been "evil" or been betrayed by her "evil" ways."
Psionix says, "Everything is what you make of it."
Shiril says, "To grow rich and venerable.."
Guhl says, "yes"
Shiril nods to Guhl.
Shiril asks, "What would you be willing to do to attain that goal?"
Morgiest asks, "Seduce followers of Ivas?"
Morgiest raises an eyebrow in Guhl's direction.
Shiril starts chuckling at Morgiest.
Kadesha turns to face Morgiest.
Kadesha says, "too easy"
Guhl says, "but it is the goal, and it is right and good, and a joy, like making arms or mining prescious ore..."
Kadesha winks at Morgiest.
Robinblood says, "I've seduced a few followers of Ivas."
Robinblood appears to be trying hard not to grin.
Morgiest says, "Well, but he wanted to be rich and venerable, didnt say he wanted it to be hard too."
Shiril asks, "How is growing rich right and good when there is poverty in areas of the world?"
Shiril peers quizzically at Guhl.
Guhl says, "In the world that I forge in any who can work can earn a living and yes, prosper, I expect no less..."
Shiril says, "And others might say differently."
Morgiest says, "Well said"
Kadesha asks, "venerable is a nice way to say old as dirt ain it?"
Shiril says, "It is all a matter of what you are willing to do to get what you desire. In this case, to grow rich and venerable."
Shiril nods to Guhl.
Morgiest says, "He could have said kadesha-like ifin ye prefer...."
Shiril starts chuckling at Morgiest.
Shiril coughs.
Guhl says, "venerable, worthy of veneration... truely earned favor..."
Morgiest says, "Kadesha-like"
Shiril says, "In your eyes, perhaps."
Shiril asks, "How are you growing rich?"
Shiril peers quizzically at Guhl.
Guhl says, "well we can argue about what we are willing to do, but I find no such inclination in my nature"
Shiril nods to Guhl.
Shiril says, "Not all folk will."
Naessi says, "Please excuse me at this time. I have enjoyed your lecture and discussion... thank you, Shiril."
Marclar says, "hmm"
Shiril says, "And then again, there are those who don't feel they will... but find it creeping up behind them someday."
Shiril curtsies to Naessi.
Kadesha says, "richness can certainly mean rich in spirit and soul, not just material wealth"
Kadesha smiles at Guhl.
Shiril asks, "This disappoints you?"
Shiril peers quizzically at Guhl.
Shiril says, "We could always take you under wing and teach you more thoroughly about the goddess."
Shiril nods to Guhl.
Morgiest says, "Remember everyone, we are here at these lectures not so much to agree with the lecturer, as to learn how at least one devoted follow thinks...."
Jacinto says, "Richness can also mean enjoyment."
Sylnorella says, "I find it interesting to learn about others religion."
Shiril says, "Aye, so do I."
Guhl says, "Now the discussion becomes political, but I'm struggling with a personal connection..."
Morgiest says, "Most insightful, that is for certain. Ah fer one didnt know that Ivas actually condoned murder..."
Sylnorella says, "Though... However, I do still think that my Lord of the Emerald Path is the truest way one can seek."
Shiril raises an eyebrow at Morgiest.
Shiril says, "That isn't necessarily true."
Morgiest asks, "Ye did discribe that vengence that occured when ye first started speakin after all. Would ye say it was somethin other then murder?"
Shiril says, "I tend to put vengeance and out-right murder in different categories."
Shiril says, "And I really do believe it depends on the circumstances."
Guhl says, "I am content for now"
Tzuriz asks, "Shiril, I understand from you presentation that followers of Ivas garner support of their goddess by preying on the weak and by inciting jealousy...Do her followers find 'extra' pleasure in the seduction of those married or engaged as opposed to non-committed folks...or is it all the same so long as they find support for their goddess?"
Shiril rubs her chin thoughtfully.
Skaster says, "That really does depend."
Shiril asks, "That really depends on the servant, now doesn't it?"
Marandalynn says, "Good question."
Morgiest asks, "Interesting. How did all of the attendees at that "ball" deserve to be murdered, or have vengence performed on them? The Qween of course you might could make a case for, but anyone who attended a party?"
Volsix says, "If you're trying to win a prize for your girlfriend.."
Psionix says, "It takes two for seduction to work."
Psionix says, "Or else it would just be an attempt"
Volsix asks, "And you can win her a prize from another booth, isn't that more impressive?"
Shiril nods to Psionix.
Shiril cocks her head at Tzuriz.
Volsix says, "And don't ask how, but that's happened."
Skaster says, "She mentioned that only those that were invited to the party were those that had wronged Ivas by betraying her."
Shiril says, "Some find breaking a prior relationship to be more challenging."
Tzuriz says, "Aye, I was just wondering if it is common for follower's to 'target' those married moreso than other people"
Shiril nods to Tzuriz.
Morgiest says, "Oh, ah missed that part. Thanke fer clearin it up.."
Shiril says, "Or perhaps they feel they are testing the true strength of that relationship."
Shiril says, "It really just depends."
Shiril says, "In many cases, I believe servants don't differentiate."
Shiril says, "One body or another..."
Shiril waves her hand in a dismissive gesture.
Shiril says, "As long as they eventually come to my Lady or go by the wayside."
Tzuriz says, "Aye, I was kinda thinkin' that...although it would seem that Ivas would have a hand in even the strongest and 'healthiest' of relationships"
Shiril nods to Tzuriz.
Shiril says, "In a manner of speaking, most certainly."
Morgiest asks, "Aye, well, as far as married folks bein seduced, do ye blame the one who seduces a married person? Or the married person who is weak enough of spirit to be seduced in the first place?"
Psionix says, "Not all seduction is sexual in nature. I know I am generalizing, but most associate them together."
Psionix says, "Shiril is married."
Tzuriz says, "another good question"
Tzuriz nods to you.
Psionix says, "Yet her wit, charm and personality"
Shiril says, "When you look at a married coouple, for example, you can attempt to test those bonds..."
Psionix says, "Is worth having a closer relationship to"
Shiril says, "But at some point, you know that that a couple has control of themselves if you cannot break the bond."
Psionix says, "In essence, I have been seduced by her frreidnship and companionship."
Shiril says, "And if they have control, then you're fairly sure there is a real love, complete with passion and desire."
Shiril nods to Tzuriz.
Shiril glances at Psionix.
Shiril chuckles.
Shiril strides over to stand before Psionix.
Shiril just kissed Psionix on the cheek.
Skaster says, "I think that holds true for several of us."
Shiril asks, "He's such a darling, isn't he?"
Tzuriz says, "Aye, I agree with that and also with what Psionix was sayin'."
Shiril asks, "Does that answer the question or did you have something else?"
Morgiest asks, "Interesting, if you were unable to seduce someone, and said to yourself they had passion and desire, so thats why they could not be seduced, would you consider that you "succeeded" in the eyes of Ivas? Or failed?"
Tzuriz says, "No that was it, really just wanted to bring up the topic of marriage into all this, and see what was said."
Shiril says, "Rather depends on the situation."
Shiril nods to Tzuriz.
Shiril says, "Sometimes I would gather that the person is just senseless."
Morgiest asks, "If you could not seduce them?"
Psionix says, "I would say you succeeded since you have served her in the best way you could."
Shiril says, "Certainly."
Shiril nods to you.
Morgiest asks, "Hrm, senseless because you are irresistable?"
Shiril says, "Or they have other bonds that are strong enough to keep them in-line. They tent to be of a stronger mind."
Psionix says, "Because you were not "seduced" does not take away from your faith"
Kadesha whispers, "senseless aint what Id call em, but faithful"
Sylnorella says, "Well, to be brief, I enjoyed hearing anothers beliefs on a different Arkati, but I must away for now."
Sylnorella bows to Shiril.
Shiril says, "Or perhaps I am not the correct person to be dealing with them."
Marandalynn says, "And even a glimps of intrest is still..well intrest."
Sylnorella just went up.
Shiril says, "Aye, exactly what Psionix said."
Shiril says, "Alright..."
(Jacinto extends his hands out wide.)
Shiril cocks her head at Fathomynd.
Psionix says, "On a side note. Lady Shiril is the head of the Emerald Conclave."
Psionix says, "If you wish to learn more of Lady Ivas"
Morgiest says, "Oh, and Tzuriz, ah personally would blame the married person who allowed themselves to be seduced, as they are the one breakin thier vow."
(Tanager murmurs, "Good night, all," and finally completes that step backwards out of the Hall.)
Kadesha says, "How can you even call something which sees the weaker as prey, 'love?' Love would seek to nurture and lift up, love is giving, not taking. It's my opinion that you speak of lust. And I believe someone can be quite passionate in their guarding and desire of one they love and cherish. Try harming someones loved ones, and see how passionate."
Kadesha says, "I ust wondered then, why you call such love.."
Shiril nods to Kadesha.
Shiril says, "That second part you talked about IS important to love."
Shiril says, "And it does fall under Ivas' realm."
Shiril says, "The first part.. in regards to prey.. only applies to the weak of mind."
Kadesha says, "and if I may add, you say Ivas encourages one to give in to all such desires, food, drink, lust.. well"
Shiril nods to Kadesha.
Kadesha says, "if I gave in to my lust to throttle certin individuals, theyd cease to exhist.. thus I will make an arguement for the need for self control"
Kadesha winks and flashes a sly grin.
Shiril chuckles.
Shiril says, "Well.. perhaps your life would be better without those throttled individuals."
Shiril raises an eyebrow in Kadesha's direction.
Jacinto says, "Her worship is a balance of desire and control."
Skaster nods to Kadesha.
Jacinto nods to Alisaire.
Morgiest says, "Her life might be better, I doubt thiers would be though."
Kadesha says, "the weak of mind..are still valued living beings"
Shiril cocks her head at Kadesha.
Shiril says, "To some."
Shiril says, "Their lives would be over."
Shiril says, "And likely we'd be all the better for it."
Kadesha says, "well what if those Id like to throttle are most of you Lornon types"
Kadesha winks at Shiril.
Kadesha grins.
Shiril says, "You could certainly try."
Shiril begins chuckling at Kadesha.
Kadesha says, "lucky I believe in self control"
Kadesha smiles.
Kadesha leans on Shiril.
Shiril hums distractedly to herself.
Skaster says, "I don't see why you'd want to do such a terrible thing."
Skaster twiddles his thumbs.
Shiril begins chuckling at Skaster.
Shiril raises an eyebrow in Kadesha's direction.
Marandalynn smiles at Skaster.
Ysharra shakes her head.
Shiril says, "Weakness of mind is denoted by those who simply have no ability to control themselves."
Shiril says, "While Ivas' servants encourage you to give into desire, they also understand self-control."
Kadesha asks, "and yet that is what you encourage, give in?"
Shiril says, "That is why they succeed at what they do."
Shiril says, "People who have no concept of self-control tend to give into anything. They have no sound faith, nothing to keep them from swaying constantly from one direction to another."
Shiril nods to Kadesha.
Shiril says, "Think of it as a testing ground."
Kadesha says, "it sounds as though then Ivas would encourage weakness of mind"
Shiril says, "And then once you have passed the test, you can enjoy yourself all you want."
Morgiest says, "But dont you encourage people to loose thier self control? Of course you would understand self control, you are tryin to git people to loose thiers...."
Shiril says, "If people lose self-control..."
Shiril says, "And you have caused this... you have power over them."
Morgiest asks, "And thats good?"
Tzuriz says, "Self-control and self-restraint, to me at least, are slightly different things"
Shiril says, "Well certainly, if they're weak enough to let that happen."
Morgiest asks, "Its good to control another sentient being?"
Shiril cocks her head at Morgiest.
Shiril says, "It creates an ordered society."
Shiril says, "And besides, it can be amusing."
Skaster glances at Shiril.
Morgiest says, "Oh, well, thats makes it good then, as long as its amusing."
Kadesha says, "well thanks for answering anyways"
Shiril nods to Kadesha.
Shiril says, "Certainly. Anytime for you."
Shiril smiles at Kadesha.
Iscikella grins.
Kadesha says, "I'll stick wit Lorminstra"
Kadesha winks at Shiril.
Shiril says, "Alright, all of the lasses and lads have asked their questions... or needed to depart."
Shiril asks, "What else have we on the floor?"
Iscikella says, "Whenever ye are ready to close the panel, Shiril."
Iscikella nods.
Morgiest asks, "Hrm, one Ivas follower, and no music to dance to?"
Shiril starts chuckling at Morgiest.
Kadesha says, "sides I too ugly to serve Ivas"
Shiril says, "Four, and no music."
Shiril snaps her fingers.
Shiril says, "Thank you all for attending."
Iscikella recites:

"Let's give a round of applause for our lecturer."