Lady Iscikella speaks on Lumnis
Pan Arkati Festival 5102
Recorded and edited by Morgiest Frostgiant


Iscikella recites:

"Allright, I feel strange doing my own introduction, but seems Tierus is lost coming from the landing."

Iscikella recites:

"So I will just say this lecture is on Lumnis, Goddess of Wisdom and Knowledge. And go from there."

Iscikella recites:

"'To restore the balance
Restore the order.'"

Iscikella smiles.
Iscikella recites:

"These words, whispered to me under the auspices of The Wise long ago, were to provide the beginning of my personal experience with the philosophy of Lumnis. She is the epitome of Wisdom as well as Knowledge, and in that way embodies all that is balance."

Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"For simply to know all is not necessarily to be wise. To be wise one must comprehend not only knowledge itself, but the where and wherefore of finding it, the how and when to use it, and the reality of its interconnection into the world as a whole..."

Iscikella recites:

"...The 'order' of that knowledge as it were."

Iscikella recites:

"I will state right off that my interpretation of Lumnis' teachings is sometimes viewed as controversial. But I hope ye will find that of which I will speak here tonight interesting and informative, and worthy at least of serious thought."

Iscikella smiles slowly.
Iscikella recites:

"Lumnis' command over true wisdom has to do with her integral understanding of what is known as the Five Spheres."

Iscikella recites:

"These spheres are represented in her symbol via five circles of different colors. The spheres themselves reference Elements, Spirit, Planes, Chaos and Order."

(Iscikella points to the symbol on the grey altar.)
Iscikella smiles quietly to herself.
Iscikella recites:

"Each piece or bit of knowledge encompasses all of these spheres."

Iscikella recites:

"Element is the basic knowledge itself. The facts, the truths, the realities."

(Iscikella counts off on her fingers the first sphere.)
Iscikella recites:

"Spirit is the intent behind the knowledge. How it is used."

Iscikella says, "And that one is the "sticky wicket" for Fash'lo'nae."
Iscikella chuckles.
Iscikella recites:

"Planes is the actual application of such knowledge into the current world environment."

Iscikella recites:

"Chaos is the possibilities such knowledge can give as results. All possibilities."

Ilistin ponders.
Iscikella furrows her brow.
Iscikella recites:

"Order is the location, the connection of such knowledge within the realm of what currently exists."

Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"Because all knowledge collates in the completeness of these spheres, understanding how they inter-relate gives Lumnis an edge, so to speak, on the quality of wisdom."

Iscikella says, "Well, she is a goddess."
Iscikella flashes a wide grin.
Iscikella recites:

"And because she does understand the spheres so well, Lumnis -- in and of herself -- has achieved a serenity of outlook we mortals can only hope to partially emulate."

Iscikella sighs softly.
Iscikella recites:

"Within the framework of what Lumnis has come to know, she has no conflict."

Iscikella recites:

"This is a hard concept to explain for us mortals. But it is why Lumnis has been known to counsel the darker Arkati just as freely and open-heartedly as she does the lighter ones."

Iscikella furrows her brow.
Iscikella recites:

"She realizes no aspect of knowledge is, in and of itself, "bad" or "evil". It is rather the failure to maintain the balance between the spheres, with regard to such knowledge, which may render it harmful."

Iscikella recites:

"In order to accept the full philosophy of Lumnis, one must discard old concepts of "good" and "evil", and come to terms with ideas of "light" and "dark"."

Iscikella says, "A sticky wicket of another kind."
Iscikella grins.
Iscikella recites:

"In this point of view, light and dark is a philosophy of intent with regard to the Spirit sphere of any and all knowledge."

Iscikella recites:

"An intent of light is generally for purposes to guide, aid, make whole, bring comfort or engender a sense of well-being."

Iscikella recites:

"An intent of dark is generally for purposes to dominate, hurt, split, bring distress or engender a sense of conflict."

Iscikella recites:

"Yet, as contradictory as it may sound, all intents of dark are not necessarily evil, and all intents of light are not necessarily good."

Iscikella recites:

"Let me try and explain this by a bit of a concrete example..."

Iscikella ponders.
Iscikella rubs her chin thoughtfully.
Iscikella recites:

"There are two small villages, both rather backward, both with populations that are sometimes starving, as well as lacking in other creature comforts and overall achievements."

(Iscikella raises both hands outward to indicate the two villages.)
Iscikella recites:

"And there are two rather dynamic and charismatic leaders who arise within these villages."

Iscikella recites:

"Now the goal of one leader is truly and sincerely to guide his fellows toward a better life. To this end he does learn and teach them about better farming and hunting methods, new techniques of building, creates libraries, sets up schools, etc."

(Iscikella stretches forward her right hand.)
Iscikella smiles.
Iscikella recites:

"He also sets up a philosophy whereby, if ye need help with something, ye come directly to him or his council members. There is no experimentation. No creative thinking. No learning through trial and error."

Iscikella furrows her brow.
Iscikella recites:

"The village prospers, but the people in it personally stagnate. They have no desire to do anything other than ask for what is needed. There are no rewards for doing anything more, so why bother?"

Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"The goal of the other leader is to dominate neighboring villages. To this end he finds it expedient to learn and teach the villagers about better farming and hunting methods, new techniques of building, create libraries, set up schools, etc."

(Iscikella stretches forward her left hand to indicate the other village.)
Iscikella recites:

"However he sets up a philosophy whereby, if ye want to be respected, ye are expected to contribute something creatively to the village, some new method, some new means to the end goal of being better than the other villages around."

Iscikella ponders.
Iscikella recites:

"The village prospers, and the people grow in outlook. Eventually they will likely overthrow the leader as that outlook outgrows his goal. But there can be no denying that leader has given them much not only in the physical sense, but also in the sense of seeing the value of being innovative."

(Iscikella nods knowingly.)
Iscikella recites:

"So sometimes what is essentially of dark can achieve a goal of balance that the light cannot. It becomes then a complicated matter of knowing the limits of both."

Iscikella says, "A very complicated matter indeed."
Iscikella nods.
Morgiest drums his fingers thoughtfully against his chin and inhales the chocolate-scented smoke smoldering away within his pipe deeply.
Iscikella recites:

"Because Lumnis is wise enough to realize that dark intents can produce positive results, she tends to be a tolerant goddess. Though this is not to say she never angers or never shows such anger with god-like force."

Iscikella glances at Kadesha.
Iscikella chuckles.
Kadesha ducks her head.
Iscikella recites:

"The abuse of knowledge is to Lumnis the most heinous of crimes. It is for this reason she is also known as the arbiter of truth. For, in most cases, a purposeful lie is the worst abuse of knowledge."

Iscikella frowns.
Iscikella recites:

"But there are other abuses as well. Using knowledge without regard to consequences is another of these."

Iscikella says, "And one which is usually more... spectacular in nature."
Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"Yet Lumnis, realizing as she does that even dark intents can sometimes achieve positive results, is not as quick to label as much as abuse as we mortals might."

Iscikella chuckles.
Iscikella recites:

"And sometimes this does cause upset amongst her followers."

Iscikella says, "We like things neat and tidy, we mortals."
Iscikella winks.
Iscikella recites:

"Still, unto those she does believe fully guilty of such a crime, those whose methods of gaining or using knowledge bring into upset the balance amongst the five spheres, her judgment can be harsh and unyielding."

Iscikella says, "She has great power and she can wield it fully."
Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"Remember Lumnis is wed to one who dispenses Justice in all forms, the mighty Koar. She, therefore, has seen enough of punishment being meted out to understand that firm and swift is the surest way to achieve the desired end."

Iscikella recites:

"Throughout history there have been stories of Lumnis simply making certain practitioners of magic "disappear", never to be seen again."

Iscikella recites:

"Yet such punishments from Lumnis' hand are as rare as they are unchangeable. Lumnis will seldom smite, but when she does it is forever."

Iscikella says, "She is slow to anger, but long to burn."
Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"At this point, since I have mentioned Koar, it would perhaps behoove to cover a bit of Lumnis' position in the pantheon of the Arkati."

Iscikella recites:

"As the wife of Koar, in general she is viewed as the Queen of the Arkati. But Lumnis herself makes no claim to any such title."

Iscikella shakes her head.
Iscikella recites:

"Though knowing the exact reasoning of gods is surely beyond us, it is perhaps not too much presumption to guess why she does not make any such claim."

Iscikella rubs her chin thoughtfully.
Iscikella recites:

"Lumnis is a goddess who enjoys being part of accomplishment. Who prefers the essence of self-worth to the idea of seeking respect through the eyes of others rather than ourselves."

Jacinto asks, "Koar's no good in bed wed?"
Jacinto ducks his head.
Iscikella begins chuckling at Jacinto.
Tanager stares at Jacinto.
Iscikella says, "I don't think I'll ask that at any commune myself."
Iscikella chuckles.
Iscikella winks at Jacinto.
(Tanager comments dryly, "Jacinto would.")
Iscikella says, "Likely he would."
Iscikella begins chuckling at Tanager.
Iscikella grins.
Jacinto whistles tunelessly to himself.
Iscikella clears her throat.
(Iscikella gets serious again.)
Iscikella recites:

"Therefore, she doesn't need to be bowed to as a queen to know her own place in the world of the Arkati. Her place is what she makes of it."

Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"I would tend to doubt Lumnis requires the outward approval of those around her to feel fulfilled. Her level of fulfillment comes from seeing the world and the lesser races progress in knowledge, and the proper balance of that knowledge toward the ultimate goal of inner serenity."

Iscikella says, "So her goals are different. Fame isn't something which draws her. Thus "queenship"... well, it doesn't really fit her."
Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"In this way is she a true companion for Koar in that she doesn't require him to use his own power to place her above others. Such precedent placing means little to her. While Koar's own peace of mind, something that -- as the embodiment of Justice -- the great god seems to wrestle with on a daily basis, means much to her."

Iscikella says, "She would rather try to give him some form of serenity."
Iscikella nods.
Iscikella says, "Then nudge him to have her revered as Queen."
Iscikella grins.
Iscikella recites:

"For my final thoughts tonight, I would like to speak a little on Lumnis' methods of forwarding knowledge."

Iscikella says, "An important aspect I think, and one often misunderstood."
Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"She is not one who "hands out" solutions. She prefers us to seek them ourselves."

Iscikella recites:

"Her method is to provide the means and let us determine the answer."

Iscikella flashes a wide grin.
Iscikella recites:

"She doesn't believe in "pushing knowledge into our heads" before we are ready to discover it for ourselves."

Iscikella says, "And we have thick heads after all."
Iscikella chuckles.
Iscikella recites:

"The old story of Lumnis not wishing to give the lesser races knowledge of fire has to do with this idea."

Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"She understood that those races would eventually figure out fire for themselves. And that to just "drop into their laps" knowledge of something with consequences of which those races were not ready to deal was not the way of wisdom or balance."

Iscikella shakes her head.
Iscikella says, "In fact could cause pain and suffering."
Iscikella nods.
Iscikella recites:

"One must understand that she fully expected and believed without doubt those races would "discover" fire on their own. And she was not "withholding" any knowledge from them. She was instead allowing them the joy of the discovery when the time was ripe within their own minds."

Iscikella says, "Until Fash'lo'nae stepped in, of course, with a bit of meddling."
Iscikella chuckles.
Iscikella recites:

"This is a hallmark of Lumnis. The joy we experience in our own finding of solutions, of new ideas, of unique methods... that joy is hers as well as ours."

Iscikella smiles warmly.
Iscikella recites:

"She partakes of it with us. Smiles as she watches. And allows our own feelings of accomplishment and self-worth to shine through us and warm her own heart."

Iscikella says, "Sort of like a mother with children who are learning to walk and talk."
Iscikella smiles.
Iscikella recites:

"Her wish is not that she be seen as the funnel through which all knowledge flows. But that she be seen as our companion in knowledge, the one who stands beside us and beams with pleasure as we display our hard-won talents."

Iscikella smiles.
Iscikella recites:

"I will now open the floor to questions and discussion. I would prefer to keep such informal and not used hand-raising. However, please realize I can only answer one thing at a time, so don't all jumble out at once. And forgive if takes me a moment to respond to yer particular query or remark."

Iscikella chuckles.
Morstanya says, "hmm"
The light blue glow leaves Ilistin.
Morstanya says, "oh well"
Morstanya raises her hand.
Morstanya grins.
Iscikella says, "Go ahead, Mors."
Iscikella grins.
Morstanya asks, "you knew I was gonna say something, right ?"
Morstanya asks, "In reference to balance, good and evil, light and dark, and Lumnis siding with one or the other in maintaining a balance, you mentioned Lumnis has sometimes provided information to the Arkati of Lornon, which is true. It is also my understanding that occasionally she has actively opposed some goals of the powers of Lornon. Has she ever moved against any Arkati of Liabo in such a manner ?"
Iscikella says, "Since we don't know the full history of the Arkati, that is hard to say."
Iscikella furrows her brow.
Iscikella says, "But I believe she has on occasion."
Morstanya says, "You see, I believe that Lornon's pantheon despises the notions Lumnis embodies, and many of those of Liabo represent some aspect of what Lumnis see's as balance. Therefore, she isn't neutral at all. Balance does not mean neutrality, or even tolerance. Order, and the possibility of serenity existing, rely on defeating most of the notions of those of Lornon."
Iscikella says, "I never said she was neutral."
Kadesha nods to Morstanya.
Iscikella says, "I said she was tolerant."
Iscikella says, "There is a difference."
Iscikella says, "And tolerant she is."
Morstanya says, "well to be blunt, I'm saying it's more like a war than kind guidance"
Iscikella says, "I disagree, Mors."
Morgiest nods to Morstanya.
Morstanya says, "I know you do"
Morstanya begins chuckling at Iscikella.
Morgiest says, "War they want, war they git..."
Morgiest coughs.
Iscikella says, "But then I noted my views are often controversial."
Iscikella grins.
Morstanya says, "so are mine"
Morstanya says, "and we never agree on this topic anyway"
Morstanya chuckles.
Iscikella begins chuckling at Morstanya.
Iscikella says, "But we have fun debating anyway."
Iscikella winks at Morstanya.
Morstanya says, "ya ya"
Morstanya says, "well I don't want to hog the floor"
Morstanya leans back.
Iscikella asks, "Anyone else with a question or comment?"
Iscikella grins.
Morstanya says, "oh, I forgot to mention, that was a nice bit of talking overall hun"
Ferrius asks, "and debate is a means of learning, so in essence Morstanya, you are pleasing Lumnis, yes?"
Iscikella says, "Thank ye."
Lewk applauds.
Maelkyth rubs his chin thoughtfully.
Maelkyth says, "I've a question..."
Kerani smiles.
Iscikella nods to Maelkyth.
Morstanya winks at Ferrius.
Iscikella says, "Go ahead, Maelkyth."
Maelkyth asks, "do you suppose that all paths to knowldege lead to her feet?"
Iscikella says, "I think they can all lead to her feet."
Maelkyth ponders.
Iscikella says, "But if the balance is broken..."
Iscikella says, "...then they likely will lead to her ire."
Maelkyth glances at Iscikella.
Maelkyth says, "I'm curious as to what Balance you speak on"
Iscikella says, "She understands the spheres so intimately."
Iscikella says, "The balance between the spheres."
Maelkyth nods.
Iscikella says, "That control all knowledge."
Morstanya says, "she addressed that at the very start of the lecture"
Maelkyth nods to Morstanya.
Maelkyth says, "between Lumnis' spheres"
Iscikella says, "They are the spheres representing knowledge."
Iscikella nods to Maelkyth.
Maelkyth asks, "Is Lumnis then thought to be the ultimate source of truth?"
Iscikella asks, "Bonespirit?"
Aranrhod just touched a grey altar.
Maelkyth blinks.
Iscikella says, "Sorry."
Maelkyth says, "oops"
Bonespirit asks, "what good is being all knowing if you nae choose to use it to further a cause .. be it yer own or another ye believe in ?"
Iscikella nods to Maelkyth.
Maelkyth smiles at Bonespirit.
Iscikella says, "Aye, she is."
Iscikella nods to Maelkyth.
Maelkyth blinks at Iscikella.
Iscikella says, "Forgive me for jumping."
Maelkyth whistles tunelessly to himself.
Iscikella says, "Lumnis doesn't seek power. KNowledge is joy to her."
Iscikella says, "So it isn't a question of promoting sides."
Iscikella says, "It's a question of experiencing others find knowledge."
Maelkyth shivers.
Thaleles raises his hand.
Maelkyth glances at Iscikella.
Ilistin raises his hand.
Iscikella asks, "Thaleles?"
Bonespirit says, "seems like she enjoys toying with people .. think she makes a fine queen "
Morstanya begins chuckling at Bonespirit.
Maelkyth grins at Bonespirit.
Iscikella says, "She doesn't toy, Bonespirit."
Thaleles says, "You spoke earlier of receiving knowledge when we are prepared..."
Iscikella nods to Thaleles.
Iscikella says, "Basically finding it ourselves in our own time..."
Iscikella nods to Thaleles.
Thaleles asks, "Do you truly believe that she, not being one of us, can relate closely enough to actually know that?"
Iscikella says, "It is said in legend that she choose to walk for many centuries amongst the lesser races."
Iscikella says, "She was one of the few ARkati to do this."
Iscikella says, "So aye, I think she does know enough to realize that."
Iscikella nods to Thaleles.
Thaleles folds his arms over his chest.
Morstanya asks, "gads, she even took the form of a dwarf ?"
Morstanya glances at Kadesha.
Morstanya ducks her head.
Iscikella begins chuckling at Morstanya.
Iscikella says, "So they say, Mors."
Iscikella winks at Kadesha.
Ferrius asks, "are there many stories of Lumnis walking amongst us mortals in these times? weither in guise, or full glory?"
Chayy says, "Kai walks among us lesser races... and wrestles them"
Chayy nods.
Iscikella says, "In past times, yes, Ferrius."
Iscikella says, "In current times, less."
Iscikella says, "She came to understand and draw back."
Kadesha squints at Morgiest.
Kadesha ducks her head.
Iscikella says, "And became a quiet and watchful goddess."
Morgiest squints at Kadesha.
Kadesha squints at Morstanya.
(Morstanya hides behind Morgiest)
Iscikella says, "So legend tells us."
Morgiest chuckles.
Morgiest waves to Morstanya.
Aranrhod says, "A couple of us here have seen her in...other forms"
Aranrhod nods.
Ferrius says, "what was it that she came to understand? I apologize if this is redundant, I missed the first part of the lecture"
Morgiest says, "Dun do that, its too easy. Ah take up half this wall ahm leanin on."
Iscikella nods to Aranrhod.
Morgiest chuckles.
Iscikella says, "She came to understand the way knowledge worked within the spheres."
Iscikella says, "Why all were necessary."
Kadesha grins at Morstanya.
Ferrius rubs his chin thoughtfully.
Iscikella says, "This was many ages past."
Iscikella says, "Now, when she manifests..."
Iscikella says, "...and I have been fortunate to have felt her manifest several times..."
Iscikella says, "...she is... more quiet and supportive."
Iscikella says, "Most recently for instance..."
Iscikella says, "She appeared in this hall as but a gentle mist..."
Morgiest raises his hand.
Iscikella says, "...and the mist form into a hand on my shoulder."
Iscikella says, "...to let me know she knew my troubles."
Iscikella says, "And was there to comfort."
Iscikella says, "But the answer for my troubles, I have to find."
Iscikella says, "She cannot hand it to me."
Iscikella smiles.
Iscikella asks, "Morgiest?"
Iscikella cocks her head at Morgiest.
Morgiest asks, "When you say she is the final arbiter of truth.... Is that just because you are her follower? Or do the other Arkati actually accept her as that... Even those of Lornon?"
Iscikella says, "If I miss anyone, please let me know too."
Maelkyth clears his throat.
Maelkyth takes a drink from his blackberry brandy.
Iscikella says, "I think all the Arkati accept she understands the spheres."
Morgiest nods.
Iscikella says, "Even Fash'lo'nae respects her for this."
Thaleles raises his hand.
Morgiest says, "Yes, but that is vastly different from bein the final arbiter of truth..."
Iscikella nods to Ilistin.
Iscikella says, "No, not really."
Iscikella asks, "If ye know things thoroughly, don't ye know truth?"
Morgiest asks, "If Fash, and Kai for instance had some dissagreement? They would go to her to resolve it?"
Iscikella asks, "If is accepted ye know them thoroughly, how can be accepted that ye know not truth?"
Iscikella smiles at Morgiest.
Iscikella says, "That isn't the same thing, Morgiest."
Morstanya chuckles.
Iscikella says, "They would be seeking justice."
Morgiest scratches at his beard.
Iscikella says, "Not truth."
Iscikella smirks.
Iscikella asks, "Ilistin, ye had a question?"
Chayy says, "when kai has a dissagreement i think he goes to his axe to resolve it ussaly"
Chayy chuckles.
Iscikella begins chuckling at Chayy.
Maelkyth blinks.
Morgiest says, "Well, ah was assumin the dissagreement wasnt about whether Fash's head would look good on a pike er not.."
Morgiest whistles tunelessly to himself.
Bonespirit says, "well I think ones take the elements .. Facts , truth and realities and make a truth out of it"
Ilistin asks, "Earlier you said that, correct me if I'm wrong, one of Lumnis' ires arises from the use of knowledge without considering consequences?"
Maelkyth beams happily at Kerani!
Iscikella says, "Morgiest, I don't think in most case conflict the opponents are seeking truth so much as satisfaction."
Iscikella smiles at Morgiest.
Iscikella nods to Ilistin.
Morgiest scratches at his beard.
Ilistin asks, "So how far are people supposed to consider the consequences of knowledge? We're not all seers so it is hard to predict the outcome of knowledge at times?"
Iscikella says, "She does not expect seers. What is meant by not considering consequences is more in line with knowing the results could well be detrimental, and yet not caring."
Iscikella says, "Going ahead anyway."
Iscikella says, "Lumnis is tolerant."
Iscikella says, "She doesn't expect ye to know everything."
Iscikella says, "But she does expect ye to consider all ye do know."
Morstanya says, "I dont think we are all expected to know the consequences, rather, we are expected to make an attempt to understand. I think of Bandur as a bad example."
Chayy asks, "in other words purposly using knowlegde for ill?"
Iscikella says, "And not toss some aside because doesn't work into yer plan."
Iscikella nods to Morstanya.
Iscikella asks, "I am sorry, I am losing track of the questioners. I believe Guhl had a question and then Thaleles?"
Iscikella chuckles.
Thaleles nods.
Guhl nods to Iscikella.
Guhl asks, "You say Lumnis doesn't give us knowlege until we are prepared, but knowlege from the other Arkati is sometime undestood as a gift and not in relation to whether we are about to figure it out for ourselves. Has Lumnis ever worked with the other Arkati, specifically those of the arts--Cholen, Jastev, and of course Eonak--to promote knowolege? And if so, can you provide an instance from historical records and legends?"
Guhl grins.
Holfred says, "That's a mouthful"
Iscikella begins chuckling at Holfred.
Iscikella nods.
Guhl blushes a glowing shade of red.
Guhl mumbles something that you don't quite catch.
Iscikella says, "Lumnis never "gives" knowledge per se. She provides the means for it to be discovered and let's us discover it."
Chayy asks, "would knowing your foe weaknesses and using them against him be a misuse of knowledge?"
Chayy works his fingers under his sterling silver crown and scratches his head.
Iscikella says, "So I do believe she has worked in conjunction with those ARkati, but specific examples in history? Those I don't have to share."
Guhl says, "so there are no stories of 'joint efforts?'"
Iscikella says, "None I know, Guhl."
Marclar says, "a question when ye have the time"
Iscikella says, "And Chayy, no, not necessarily. Remmember the example I gave of the two villages."
Iscikella says, "Everything is rather dependent."
Chayy says, "aye, but even that example it is a very thin and shady line it seems"
Iscikella says, "To us mortals, it is."
Iscikella nods to Chayy.
Iscikella says, "Remember we are not ARkati."
Iscikella says, "And can never have their insight."
Iscikella says, "We can only do the best we can."
Iscikella asks, "Marclar?"
Marclar asks, "i probably missed this already...but what about my Queen Eorgina...what is so great about Lumnis that she was overpassed by Koar?"
Iscikella says, "Ye'd have to ask Koar. I can't speak for him. But remember, I noted Lumnis doesn't care about Koar giving her precedence over the ARkati. She cares about his peace of mind."
Chayy asks, "koar thought lumnis was prettier?"
Chayy ducks his head.
Iscikella says, "I would say that is rather attractive to one with Koar's heavy burdens."
Iscikella grins.
Iscikella asks, "Thaleles?"
Thaleles nods.
Morstanya says, "As the Lord of Justice, he probably prefers someone that wouldn't stab him in the back given a chance"
Morstanya smiles sweetly
Maelkyth smiles.
Thaleles says, "I don't believe there will be a factual answer to this, so I'm more asking for your opinion..."
Maelkyth rubs his chin thoughtfully.
Marclar says, "it was written in the tomes that he was close to my Queen...She is nae a backstabber"
Aranrhod says, "And she would not."
Aranrhod nods to Morstanya.
Aranrhod grins.
Tjaran is no longer moving so silently.
Marclar glances at Morstanya.
Kadesha asks, "As King of the Gods he wants to be on top?"
Maelkyth grins.
Iscikella nods to Thaleles.
Kadesha ducks her head.
Morgiest pokes Kadesha in the ribs.
Thaleles says, "When it comes to making sure others are ready for knowledge..."
Kadesha smiles innocently
Thaleles asks, "Would she actively sabotage those who are not, but are close to a discovery, or would she just keep other Arkati from interfering in our lives?"
Morgiest says, "Lumnis certainly seems mer submissive then Eorgina... Perhaps he likes em submissive..."
Morgiest shrugs.
Marclar says, "nae like a woman that can speak her mind...now i see"
Iscikella says, "Well, she has been known to anger at those who use knowledge carelessly."
Iscikella asks, "But sabotage?"
Iscikella ponders.
Iscikella says, "I'm not sure of that."
Morstanya says, "I think Thaleles is asking if she would stop someone from learning something"
Thaleles says, "Precisely."
Iscikella says, "I don't believe she would."
Thaleles smiles.
Morstanya nods to Iscikella.
Iscikella looks over at Thaleles and shakes her head.
Ilistin raises his hand.
Thaleles says, "Then I think she does well."
Morstanya says, "they would merely have to deal with the consequences"
Chayy asks, "would she keep a mortal from descovering knowledge that the world is not yet ready for?"
Morstanya says, "which might include being turned into a newt"
Chayy works his fingers under his sterling silver crown and scratches his head.
Iscikella says, "She just would stop other Arkati from making precipant attempts to push forward knowledge."
Iscikella says, "I don't think so, Chayy, no."
Maelkyth smiles.
Morgiest blinks.
Thaleles says, "Thank you for your answer. It's something I'm happy to hear."
Morgiest asks, "She has that kind of power? To stop other Arkati from spreading knowledge?"
Iscikella says, "She might punish those who uses such knowledge wantonly now."
Iscikella asks, "But stop the discovery?"
Iscikella says, "Nae."
Iscikella says, "She would attempt, Morgiest."
Iscikella says, "Doesn't mean would succeed."
Morgiest nods to Iscikella.
Iscikella says, "Fash'lo'nae brought forward knowledge of fire anyway."
Marclar says, "nevermind...ye answered my question"
Iscikella says, "Recollect that."
Maelkyth says, "let me see..."
Iscikella says, "But she isn't a weak Arkati."
Iscikella says, "And those that would think that would be surprised."
Iscikella chuckles.
Iscikella says, "Likely unpleasantly."
Iscikella asks, "Ilistin?"
Zerilexa just arrived.
Shejala leans back.
Ilistin asks, "I've another question. Earlier you mentioned that the worst form of abuse is a purposeful life correct? Lets consider this situation. A and B are happily married; yet you find out that A has an affair. B suspects something and asks you if A is having an affair? Now in this case wouldn't not telling B the truth and instead a purposeful lie lead to their continued happiness rather than despair and unhappiness?"
Morstanya says, "we aren't talking about simple everyday matters, no god concerns themself with such things"
Ferrius says, "that would be a short lived happiness, and a false one at that methinks..."
Ilistin says, "I meant to say purposeful lie not a purposeful life."
Iscikella says, "I also said she does not consider many things we consider punishable offenses to be so."
Iscikella says, "That's a very minor lie."
Iscikella says, "Doesn't affect the fate of the world."
Morgiest chuckles.
Marclar asks, "then what constitutes a punishable offense?"
Morgiest asks, "Minor? Cheatin on yer vows tae yer spouse?"
Morgiest ducks his head.
Ilistin asks, "It affects the fate of the world in A and B's viewpoint does it not?"
Morstanya says, "it's an everyday thing Morgiest"
Iscikella says, "In the grand view of things, Morgiest."
Iscikella chuckles.
Morstanya says, "happens everyday"
Morgiest nods to Morstanya.
Marclar says, "i would nae call cheating minor"
Ilistin asks, "So in other words, Lumnis' lumnits are relative?"
Iscikella nods to Ilistin.
Ilistin says, "Lumnis' limits."
Ilistin rubs his chin thoughtfully.
Morgiest says, "Perhaps ifin it wasnt viewed as "minor" it would nae be an everyday occurance.."
Morgiest coughs.
Iscikella says, "Because as Arkati, she has a different view of things."
Morstanya begins chuckling at Morgiest.
Iscikella says, "More broad than ours."
Maelkyth smiles at Kerani.
Iscikella says, "I cannot speak for her. But more often her assaults have been on those making great offenses."
Ilistin asks, "So ultimately like any other philosiphy that can be used and discarded at whim then?"
Iscikella says, "Any philosophy is what ye make it, Ilistin."
Morgiest says, "But, agreed, its nae gonna make the world fall down. Least not in normal circumstances."
Morstanya says, "I think the notion of a serene world includes self determination"
Kadesha asks, "wouldnt such matters of martial fidelity and betrayal be more under the province of Oleani or Ivas?"
Iscikella says, "Ye have to apply it within yer own framework."
Kadesha shrugs.
Iscikella asks, "Do ye expect the ARkati to decide very move for ye?"
Iscikella cocks her head at Ilistin.
Morgiest raises his hand.
Thaleles smiles at Iscikella.
Iscikella asks, "To decide what ye eat for dinner?"
Tjaran clasps Kymbers's hand tenderly.
Kymbers smiles at Tjaran.
Iscikella asks, "What ye wear to that wedding next week?"
Morstanya asks, "how much I drink ?"
Thaleles says, "Extremely wise words."
Iscikella asks, "How ye rear yer children?"
Iscikella says, "This isn't their sphere."
Chayy babbles something unintelligible.
Iscikella says, "It is ours."
Kadesha asks, "commune to Cholen when out of town to find wheres a good bar in Ta-Illistim?"
Ilistin says, "Their general guidelines should create a basis by which we can develop rules from."
Kadesha chuckles.
Iscikella says, "And so it is."
Chayy says, "some arkati would like to control all we do"
Iscikella asks, "Ye believe such lies to be detrimental?"
Iscikella says, "then ye don't lie."
Ilistin says, "So in other words, ultimately, they do decide most of what we should do."
Iscikella says, "Ye believe that not hurting someone is more important? Then such is what ye do."
Ilistin says, "I never said that."
Iscikella says, "We decide for ourselves, but we use the guidance they give."
Iscikella says, "Do not make the ARkati our babysitters."
Iscikella says, "They aren't."
Iscikella shakes her head.
Ilistin asks, "What I asked isn't a purposeful lie helpful as well?"
Ilistin says, "In avoiding detrimental consequences."
Kymbers asks, "Best to nae speak then?"
Kadesha asks, "how helpful is it to the soul of the liar?"
Chayy says, "if they where are babysitters, someone should fire them"
Iscikella asks, "It would be dependent. But in that example, does it truly do that in the end?"
Iscikella says, "That is what has to be considered."
Ilistin says, "Of course it does. See not know not."
Ilistin asks, "Ignorance is bliss correct?"
Kadesha says, "yes but the lord of lies might catch it"
Kadesha nods to Ilistin.
Iscikella looks over at Ilistin and shakes her head.
Maelkyth asks, "who amongst has the wisdom of Lumnis, and yet we may still abide by her wishes, no?"
Iscikella asks, "What if this lover of his has his child?"
Morstanya says, "ya Ilistin, that's why I'm so grumpy"
Kadesha says, "bigger mess then an angry spouse"
Iscikella asks, "Or if he gives his wife a disease because of his affair?"
Chayy says, "Ignorance is bliss, knowledge is power, yadda yadda yadda"
Maelkyth asks, "may I interject?"
Maelkyth grins sheepishly.
Iscikella says, "Ye assume all is well because it is well for a moment."
Ilistin says, "Kadesha, we could ask if's forever, let us consider the limits of this situation instead."
Iscikella says, "surely, Maelkyth."
Iscikella nods.
Maelkyth smiles.
Tjaran nods to Marclar.
Morstanya stretches.
Maelkyth says, "I see this going on for some time..."
Kadesha says, "was no real if, a lie harms the sul of its utterer"
Maelkyth grins.
Maelkyth clears his throat.
Alektra nods.
Maelkyth says, "I wanted clarification from you, though..."
Maelkyth smiles at Iscikella.
Lewk says, "If Lummis expects us to find knowledge on our own; and also expects that we do not do so by experiment; then we must look to each other for answers; so IF you asking: I say boil him for cheating lies or not"
Maelkyth asks, "How can you hold Lumnis to be the highest truth when there is Creation prior to her? greater than her?"
Lewk asks, "?"
Iscikella says, "I am talking about truth in what we now have in the world. Truth in what can be known of it."
Iscikella says, "Some say there is power beyond the Arkati."
Maelkyth says, "so, our Reality in essence"
Iscikella says, "That is something I cannot know."
Maelkyth says, "which we define by our cultures"
Kerani says, "How can yo find knowledge with out experimenting. That makes no sense."
Chayy asks, "is it the drake you speak of?"
Iscikella asks, "Kerani, I never said that?"
Maelkyth shakes his head.
Chayy says, "i have heard storys to such"
Morstanya says, "it's a valid observation, but the answer is unknowable to us mere mortals"
Iscikella says, "I said she wants to discover for ourselves."
Maelkyth says, "not just, though I suppose they may be considered"
Kerani says, "I didn't say you did Iscikella. Lewk did."
Iscikella says, "Which does indeed mean experiment."
Chayy rubs a weathered black leather cloak held at the neck by a fine silver dragon clasp.
Aranrhod says, "We of the Lady do experiment"
Aranrhod nods.
Morstanya says, "that's right"
Morstanya nods to Aranrhod.
Matti beams!
Kerani says, "Of course."
Kymbers says, "And it means trusting in our selves and our faith."
Lewk asks, "is that right?"
Lewk asks, "did i hear wrong?"
Maelkyth says, "I'm not certain what trust and faith have to do with truth"
Maelkyth says, "but from my perspective, all the Arkati are simply another culture"
Aranrhod says, "In my case...it had a lot to do."
Morstanya says, "I found a spell of mine oddly changed once, a very nasty spell. To experiment with it, I went to a very distant place and made sure no one else was around"
Maelkyth says, "more powerful by far than we..."
Morstanya says, "that is what is expected"
Maelkyth says, "but not Ultimate anythings..."
Morstanya says, "had I just flippantly used the magick and injured others, and continued to learn in that manner, I would have displeased Lumnis"
Maelkyth says, "Lumnis has my respect because she fashions tools which meet my needs in the pursuit of truth and knowledge...."
Maelkyth says, "but to claim here as anything else is a bit misleading, I feel"
Iscikella says, "Philosophies on gods will always differ. I do hold the Arkati as above us mortals."
Iscikella says, "Some do not."
Matti hugs Morgiest with a smile.
Chayy asks, "you mean testin my new weapons on youngins is bad?"
Chayy says, "huh"
Chayy works his fingers under his sterling silver crown and scratches his head.
Morstanya nods to Chayy.
Morstanya says, "fraid so"
Chayy says, "i will keep that in mind for the future"
Chayy starts chortling.
Morstanya says, "uh huh"
Morstanya coughs.
Maelkyth smiles at Iscikella.
Maelkyth says, "I too hold them in reverence"
Iscikella smiles at Maelkyth.
Maelkyth says, "but I do not call them the answers to Creation"
Iscikella says, "I will take one more question and then, I'm afraid, I will have to close the panel to prepare for the next speaker tonight."
Iscikella smiles.
Ilistin says, "Knowledge isn't bad nor is it good, ultimately; so testing your weapons on youngins gives you knowledge by all means continue."
Maelkyth says, "you are quite correct"
Iscikella says, "And when one of those youngers turns out to be a mean old wizard..."
Morstanya says, "perhaps Lumnis does know everything to do with creation Maelkyth, I don't know one way or the other, but I suspect she isn't going to divulge is she does have that knowledge"
Maelkyth says, "And a natural order will exert itself based upon your actions"
Maelkyth shrugs.
Iscikella says, "Ye'll get yer comeuppance."
Iscikella begins chuckling at Chayy.
Chayy says, "i get my head blown off"
Ilistin says, "But then again Justice is not Knowledge."
Chayy says, "its happen befor"
Iscikella says, "Everything inter-relates."
Kymbers says, "Nae when ye have no reguard for others lives."
Iscikella winks.
Maelkyth says, "Not that we will ever know, but somehow I think she does not"
Lewk bows to Iscikella.
Ferrius says, "I myself am rather new to these lands... find that learning about all the Arkati very interesting, mayhap the Lady will smile upon me as I learn..."
Maelkyth says, "not to her detriment..."
Maelkyth says, "but to ours if we choose to believe so"
Iscikella says, "I'm sure she will, Ferrius."
Iscikella recites:

"Allright, I hope I have intrigued ye at least."

Morstanya says, "get me a beer and I'll put in a good word for you"
Maelkyth says, "anyhow, a most excellent presentation, MiLady"
Maelkyth bows to Iscikella.
Iscikella recites:

"I did warn by views are controversial."